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	<title>Comments for Shut up, Canice</title>
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	<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 19:28:26 -0700</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>Comment on 52 Titles: Sara Marcus&#8217; &#8220;Girls to the Front&#8221; by caniceleung</title>
		<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com/2011/08/sara-marcus-girls-to-the-front/comment-page-1/#comment-43610</link>
		<dc:creator>caniceleung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Aug 2011 19:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.caniceleung.com/?p=464#comment-43610</guid>
		<description>as i mentioned in the last paragraph, i do not believe it is a conscious decision on the part of male members of the hardcore scene to pigeonhole girls.

hardcore is a male-dominated environment — any girl coming into makes a hard, conscious decision whether or not to stick around, deciding whether it&#039;s worth the work. a coming into the scene is going to have a tougher time relating to a bunch of dudes than another dude will, no?

i always have a hard time explaining what it is like growing up as a girl, but most will probably be able to give you a dozen stories about being judged for being too girly/tomboyish, what sports/games/activities they should be playing, or whether they&#039;re going through puberty to fast/slow. from a young age. they&#039;ve already been subjected to that sort of &quot;slut or one of the boys&quot;? scrutiny even before hitting junior high. so every teenaged girl is aware of this dichotomy. and when they discover their sexuality can be a power, and it&#039;s often the easiest thing to use at her disposal when she&#039;s 16. or conversely, to come in as a girl and be surrounded by boys, you adopt their behaviour. shit, just the other week a co-worker told me i wasn&#039;t sitting properly in a full-length dress (that revealed nothing due to its length). you throw years of social conditioning into the mix of a scene that is boys everywhere and hyper-masculine music, and most girls are bound to fall naturally into one of these two category.

that the whole scene does not bring sexuality into the equation is untrue, and kind of pollyannish. maybe for you it was the simplicity of music and stage dives, but how do you explain myspace, b9, guys talking down to girls about their lack of knowledge about the music, making fun of girls who moshed jokes about coat-racks, nudes and all the other shit that was always being talked about by someone, somewhere? i even if it wasn&#039;t part of YOUR scene, it was everywhere, not just in toronto but in every city. some guys actively encouraged and participated, others didn&#039;t, but  i didn&#039;t see much discouragement of that activity either from bands, or from long-standing members of the scene (male or female). i think there are some hardcore lyrics somewhere that talk about being passive bystanders.

if you&#039;re quoting bane as if i&#039;m talking shit on toronto hardcore, no. this isn&#039;t about tohc specifically, but about hardcore scenes in general. i think toronto is more accepting than most american cities. all i&#039;m saying is, it&#039;s hard to be a girl in punk/hardcore, and it&#039;s a damn shame that riot grrrl was the last movement to create spaces and groups of women that encouraged girls to be themselves, get involved and feel like they belonged.

i loved and love hardcore music. but it&#039;s not a perfect scene.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>as i mentioned in the last paragraph, i do not believe it is a conscious decision on the part of male members of the hardcore scene to pigeonhole girls.</p>
<p>hardcore is a male-dominated environment — any girl coming into makes a hard, conscious decision whether or not to stick around, deciding whether it&#8217;s worth the work. a coming into the scene is going to have a tougher time relating to a bunch of dudes than another dude will, no?</p>
<p>i always have a hard time explaining what it is like growing up as a girl, but most will probably be able to give you a dozen stories about being judged for being too girly/tomboyish, what sports/games/activities they should be playing, or whether they&#8217;re going through puberty to fast/slow. from a young age. they&#8217;ve already been subjected to that sort of &#8220;slut or one of the boys&#8221;? scrutiny even before hitting junior high. so every teenaged girl is aware of this dichotomy. and when they discover their sexuality can be a power, and it&#8217;s often the easiest thing to use at her disposal when she&#8217;s 16. or conversely, to come in as a girl and be surrounded by boys, you adopt their behaviour. shit, just the other week a co-worker told me i wasn&#8217;t sitting properly in a full-length dress (that revealed nothing due to its length). you throw years of social conditioning into the mix of a scene that is boys everywhere and hyper-masculine music, and most girls are bound to fall naturally into one of these two category.</p>
<p>that the whole scene does not bring sexuality into the equation is untrue, and kind of pollyannish. maybe for you it was the simplicity of music and stage dives, but how do you explain myspace, b9, guys talking down to girls about their lack of knowledge about the music, making fun of girls who moshed jokes about coat-racks, nudes and all the other shit that was always being talked about by someone, somewhere? i even if it wasn&#8217;t part of YOUR scene, it was everywhere, not just in toronto but in every city. some guys actively encouraged and participated, others didn&#8217;t, but  i didn&#8217;t see much discouragement of that activity either from bands, or from long-standing members of the scene (male or female). i think there are some hardcore lyrics somewhere that talk about being passive bystanders.</p>
<p>if you&#8217;re quoting bane as if i&#8217;m talking shit on toronto hardcore, no. this isn&#8217;t about tohc specifically, but about hardcore scenes in general. i think toronto is more accepting than most american cities. all i&#8217;m saying is, it&#8217;s hard to be a girl in punk/hardcore, and it&#8217;s a damn shame that riot grrrl was the last movement to create spaces and groups of women that encouraged girls to be themselves, get involved and feel like they belonged.</p>
<p>i loved and love hardcore music. but it&#8217;s not a perfect scene.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 52 Titles: Sara Marcus&#8217; &#8220;Girls to the Front&#8221; by TOHC</title>
		<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com/2011/08/sara-marcus-girls-to-the-front/comment-page-1/#comment-43608</link>
		<dc:creator>TOHC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2011 13:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.caniceleung.com/?p=464#comment-43608</guid>
		<description>Really, were there only two options for girls? One of the guys, or a slut?
Having been in the EXACT same scene at the exact same time (and for years before, as well (I remember when you started coming to shows) i can confidently say that it was the girls, not the boys that chose their role within that scene.
As it stood, boys didnt go to hardcore shows to meet or flirt with girls - we didnt care about them. We wanted to be there to enjoy music, stage dive, sing along, and go home tired. That seemed to be the main difference with the genres. The majority of girls I met through the years (not ALL, obviously *no sweeping statements here) were there for boys first, music second. Thats maybe the reason they saw so few options for themselves. YOU decided what was important to you. dunks and posturing for some, MUSIC for others. We all made our own decisions about what kind of contributor we wanted to be. 
&quot;I believe in change, and hope you find just what it is that you are looking for - but when you sit around and talk shit about everything that you had based your whole life on, that is where you can count me out&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really, were there only two options for girls? One of the guys, or a slut?<br />
Having been in the EXACT same scene at the exact same time (and for years before, as well (I remember when you started coming to shows) i can confidently say that it was the girls, not the boys that chose their role within that scene.<br />
As it stood, boys didnt go to hardcore shows to meet or flirt with girls &#8211; we didnt care about them. We wanted to be there to enjoy music, stage dive, sing along, and go home tired. That seemed to be the main difference with the genres. The majority of girls I met through the years (not ALL, obviously *no sweeping statements here) were there for boys first, music second. Thats maybe the reason they saw so few options for themselves. YOU decided what was important to you. dunks and posturing for some, MUSIC for others. We all made our own decisions about what kind of contributor we wanted to be.<br />
&#8220;I believe in change, and hope you find just what it is that you are looking for &#8211; but when you sit around and talk shit about everything that you had based your whole life on, that is where you can count me out&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on 52 Titles: William Faulkner&#8217;s &#8220;The Sound and the Fury&#8221; by caniceleung</title>
		<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com/2011/04/52-titles-william-faulkners-the-sound-and-the-fury/comment-page-1/#comment-43566</link>
		<dc:creator>caniceleung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Apr 2011 23:58:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.caniceleung.com/?p=429#comment-43566</guid>
		<description>i mentioned it on twitter, but should as well point out here as well... i&#039;m not counting this book in my tally. 30 pages hardly constitutes a read; i think i should finish at least 2/3 of any book if i want it to count.

also, yes, i do plan on getting a library membership. the problem is, half the books i want to read are fairly new releases. hanging on a waiting list for 6 weeks or whatever isn&#039;t worth the trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i mentioned it on twitter, but should as well point out here as well&#8230; i&#8217;m not counting this book in my tally. 30 pages hardly constitutes a read; i think i should finish at least 2/3 of any book if i want it to count.</p>
<p>also, yes, i do plan on getting a library membership. the problem is, half the books i want to read are fairly new releases. hanging on a waiting list for 6 weeks or whatever isn&#8217;t worth the trouble.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 52 Titles: William Faulkner&#8217;s &#8220;The Sound and the Fury&#8221; by Heather</title>
		<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com/2011/04/52-titles-william-faulkners-the-sound-and-the-fury/comment-page-1/#comment-43565</link>
		<dc:creator>Heather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 14:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.caniceleung.com/?p=429#comment-43565</guid>
		<description>Does that even count?

I second Jess&#039;s comment.

And read The Diving Bell and the Butterfly if you haven&#039;t already. Short, brilliant read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does that even count?</p>
<p>I second Jess&#8217;s comment.</p>
<p>And read The Diving Bell and the Butterfly if you haven&#8217;t already. Short, brilliant read.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 52 Titles: William Faulkner&#8217;s &#8220;The Sound and the Fury&#8221; by Jess</title>
		<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com/2011/04/52-titles-william-faulkners-the-sound-and-the-fury/comment-page-1/#comment-43564</link>
		<dc:creator>Jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Apr 2011 02:41:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.caniceleung.com/?p=429#comment-43564</guid>
		<description>Why are you paying money at all? Public libraries, yo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why are you paying money at all? Public libraries, yo.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 52 Titles: Rebecca Skloot&#8217;s &#8220;The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks&#8221; by vicky</title>
		<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com/2011/03/52-titles-rebecca-skloots-the-immortal-life-of-henrietta-lacks/comment-page-1/#comment-43562</link>
		<dc:creator>vicky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Mar 2011 19:11:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.caniceleung.com/?p=381#comment-43562</guid>
		<description>This was our book clubs last selection. I tried very hard to finish this book but I just couldnt.A few other members couldnt finish it either. It&#039;s an important story but it just dragged on and on and on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was our book clubs last selection. I tried very hard to finish this book but I just couldnt.A few other members couldnt finish it either. It&#8217;s an important story but it just dragged on and on and on.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 52 Titles: Gabriel Garcia Marquez&#8217; &#8220;Tales of a Shipwrecked Sailor&#8221; by caniceleung</title>
		<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com/2011/03/52-titles-gabriel-garcia-marquez-tales-of-a-shipwrecked-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-43560</link>
		<dc:creator>caniceleung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Mar 2011 04:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.caniceleung.com/?p=368#comment-43560</guid>
		<description>you&#039;re right... my knowledge of south american political history is basic, and that is an essential read. on paper, it was the last dictatorship via military coup, but perhaps not in practice. thanks for pointing that out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you&#8217;re right&#8230; my knowledge of south american political history is basic, and that is an essential read. on paper, it was the last dictatorship via military coup, but perhaps not in practice. thanks for pointing that out.</p>
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		<title>Comment on 52 Titles: Gabriel Garcia Marquez&#8217; &#8220;Tales of a Shipwrecked Sailor&#8221; by Orwell's Bastard</title>
		<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com/2011/03/52-titles-gabriel-garcia-marquez-tales-of-a-shipwrecked-sailor/comment-page-1/#comment-43556</link>
		<dc:creator>Orwell's Bastard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Mar 2011 12:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.caniceleung.com/?p=368#comment-43556</guid>
		<description>&quot;Back when Colombia was under a dictatorship?&quot; 

It hasn&#039;t exactly been a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/06/uribe-colombia-dark-side-farc&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;shining example of enlightenment&lt;/a&gt; under the &quot;democratically elected&quot; government of Alvaro Uribe ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Back when Colombia was under a dictatorship?&#8221; </p>
<p>It hasn&#8217;t exactly been a <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug/06/uribe-colombia-dark-side-farc" rel="nofollow">shining example of enlightenment</a> under the &#8220;democratically elected&#8221; government of Alvaro Uribe &#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Project 52 Titles: Read one book a week by caniceleung</title>
		<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com/2011/02/project-52-titles-read-one-book-a-week/comment-page-1/#comment-43539</link>
		<dc:creator>caniceleung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 01:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.caniceleung.com/?p=350#comment-43539</guid>
		<description>i also want to read more from authors i already know and love -- just picked up a few more gabriel garcia marquez novels, and john mcphee too.

that, and read the classics that i&#039;ve never gotten around to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i also want to read more from authors i already know and love &#8212; just picked up a few more gabriel garcia marquez novels, and john mcphee too.</p>
<p>that, and read the classics that i&#8217;ve never gotten around to.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Project 52 Titles: Read one book a week by caniceleung</title>
		<link>http://blog.caniceleung.com/2011/02/project-52-titles-read-one-book-a-week/comment-page-1/#comment-43538</link>
		<dc:creator>caniceleung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Feb 2011 01:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.caniceleung.com/?p=350#comment-43538</guid>
		<description>yes, of course i&#039;ll take suggestions. and the book club/exchange is a great idea -- books are expensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes, of course i&#8217;ll take suggestions. and the book club/exchange is a great idea &#8212; books are expensive.</p>
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